WDM driver

Yes I know this is almost a sure invitation to be flamed, but I'm gonna ask anyway.

I run Win98 and have an Ensoniq 1370 soundcard, which works fine with the VXD drivers, but i was wondering if anyone had ever tried installing the WDM drivers (available from Creative and elsewhere), and if so what luck they had had.

The installation pkg will refuse to install on its own, but since its ZIP-based, its possible to extract the drivers only and install the new WDMs via the INF file. I have contacted Creative about this, and it took about 6 exchanges to finally get them to admit they actually didn't know if it would work--but they ended the thread by inviting me to post my results for their information!

Anyhow, since this is experimental territory, I would ask: think it would be advisable to uninstall the VXD drivers before proceding, or could both driver types co-exist side-by-side?

I figure I have nothing to lose by trying this; if it fails, there aren't that many files/reg entries to cleanup, and the old VXD drivers can be reinstalled, no problem. Just wondering if anyone else had been feeling adventuresome, and if so what the outcome was.

Thanks in advance.

You MUST uninstall the vxd drivers before trying to install the WDM's.

Since you say it works fine with the vxd's, but want to see if you can tweak the wdm's into place, I'm assuming you're just messing around, and don't use your computer for anything critical....?

Because, what you have "to lose", is the use of your card, system stability, and possibly a great deal of time and effort, A - trying to get it to work, and B - trying to put it back the way it was if it doesn't.

It's not as simple as doing an uninstall and removing a couple of registry entries.....completely removing a Creative driver package involves renaming a couple of files, booting into safe mode with a list of about 10 other files in front of you, so you can bring up the search applet, and look for each one of them........one by one and so on and so on......Creative is infamous for their ability to lodge driver files sideways in ....uh, hard to reach places, if you catch my drift.  

I will bet you that no one comes forward with an account of how easy it was for them to work with a creative product, at least, not doing the kind of screwing around you're suggesting.

So....as far as that part of your question went....

I figure I have nothing to lose by trying this.

William has told you what the snags and pitfalls are, but the one thing you haven't said is what you hope to gain from the process. What facilities that the card has to offer can't you presently access?

My own experience of WMD drivers on W98 machines has been that they are a dismal failure - they were never supposed to work on that platform. And it wasn't much better on WinME either.

[WMD]

My own experience of WMD drivers on W98 machines...

Is that a deliberate play on words (OK, letters), or just a typo?

[WMD]

My own experience of WMD drivers on W98 machines...

Is that a deliberate play on words (OK, letters), or just a typo?

It's all sorts of things - yes, it's a typo, because it wasn't actually what I intended, but it's also a Freudian slip, probably caused as much by western reactions to Iraq as anything. There have been so many jokes about this one way or another that now, and it's been rammed so forcibly home by the media that I have to think consciously to get the acronym in the correct order as far as Micro$haft is concerned... and that's what you get if I don't!

But I was certainly not unaware of the appropriateness of rearranging the letters - the 'weapons' version fits quite well in W98/ME, in my experience.

Thanks all for your replies: helpful, all!

Yes, I am prepared for quite a bit of work on this, and I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty so to speak. I just wanted to get some opinions before I got started.

As for what I expect: well, I'm not sure; mostly to learn, I guess. I have a customer with a sound card that WDM kernel-mode drivers were available for, and on her system, it seemed to make a definite difference in sound quality (yes, I was able to make a crude before/after comparison). So, even if it doesn't work, I definitely would learn a great deal, and if it does, there is the potential for this same increase in quality, I suppose. I grant that it could be worse as well, but there still is that learning thing goin on... . Call me goofy if you will.

I'm really glad I asked though, if only to confirm that the VXDs need to go before the WDMs are installed. Thanks William! Other than that, I think I have a pretty good handle on what needs to be done. Been around the block a few times...

Again, thanks all! Y'all are great people. Take care and wish me luck.

But I was certainly not unaware of the appropriateness of rearranging the letters - the 'weapons' version fits quite well in W98/ME, in my experience.

That was the reason I asked: my experiences with Win98 are similar.  Unfortunately, I plan to reinstall it on an old computer of mine, as years ago I bought a Guillemot Maxistudio ISIS, and Guillemot never produced Win2K drivers for it.  When I sent a support email asking about this, they replied with "we can't develop W2000 drivers for ISIS for technical reasons which essentially come from the fact that this system isn't adapted for music multi Inputs/Outputs soundcards like ISIS".  Well, at least they admitted that they wouldn't bother, unlike the way I gather some other manufacturers string their customers along.  But I'm only planning this due to some vague notion of "well, the card is just going to waste just sitting there".  It's hardly an essential component in my setup.

The funny thing is, this card was my introduction to a legitimate version of Cool Edit.  Prior to that, I'd just been using the shareware version, and putting up with the limitation of only using certain groups of FX at a given time.

Oh, and good luck hornet777!

Thanks blurk.

I'll post results here for anyone interested as well as to the Creative tech reps.

as years ago I bought a Guillemot Maxistudio ISIS

Well, that's at least 2 ISISes in Sydney. I passed mine on to a friend of mine about 3 years ago and it still serves her well, as it did me for a few years before that. A desire for 24 bit recording and the move to XP ended that era for me. My intro to Cool Edit was different though - CE 1.x (the version before CE96) appeared on the CD attached to a local computer magazine early in 1996. It took only a day or so to convince me to register.

It took only a day or so to convince me to register.

Aaah - but I was a cheap bastard in those days.  I think it was only when I got a computer fast enough for serious multitrack work, which coincided with me realising that DAT was a crap medium, that I realised there was a better way to work than compose and mix almost entirely in MIDI, then record the results direct to DAT.  That's when I actually bought the 2.0 upgrade for CEP, and never looked back (I should really sell that DAT machine).  But this is getting way off the original topic...

As for what I expect: well, I'm not sure; mostly to learn, I guess. I have a customer with a sound card that WDM kernel-mode drivers were available for, and on her system, it seemed to make a definite difference in sound quality (yes, I was able to make a crude before/after comparison). So, even if it doesn't work, I definitely would learn a great deal, and if it does, there is the potential for this same increase in quality, I suppose.

There's nothing wrong with that, I suppose. I did most of my experimenting on much slower, simpler machines. I can't imagine screwing things up at modern speeds. (Well, I can, I do it all the time.)

What gives me the willies about your situation is the combination of WDM's and Windows 98. Like SteveG said, the WDM (or, Windows Driver Model) interface wasn't intended to work with OS's older than Millenium Edition. And that's why availability for WDM drivers for 98 is either rare or nonexistent. The companies that offer them have to feel like 'retro-fitting' a version, and then dealing with the headache that follows. Many times, they release them as a Beta to get out of the latter.

As for better sound quality ? Well, WDM doesn't provide that, despite what you thought with your 'crude' before and after test. It may take care of issues like static, or provide some increased functionality, but in my experience it's always brought with it some sort of pricetag, or tradeoff.

Anyway, they don't make your audio sound better, they make the operation of your sound card smoother. And I think manufacturers only recommend their use if the vxd drivers either don't work, or are causing frequent problems like system crashes, or blue screens. If you don't have any of these problems you're not going to receive any benefit from the WDM version. With the possible exception of some added functionality written in to the package. But that's not because they're WDM, it's because they're newer.

Good points, William. I should have been clearer in what I said about "sound being 'better'" since that is what I really meant.

As for the "experimenting" remarks, well I guess I'll never give up on that, no matter how slow or fast my puter is; just too much of a kid...; gotta see how it works and make it better if possible.

Its not like I have state-of-the-art stuff here anyway; I mean its just an Ensoniq 1370 and the puter its on is vintage '97: AMD 350 K6-2, et cetra. Not cutting-edge, but I built it myself, and take a certain amount of pride in that.

Lastly, on the WDM not being for pre-ME Windows, if that is so, then why do all webcams use the WDM driver model? The way I understand it, WDM is meant to go back to 98, inclusive; its part of DirectX. Of course I could be in error, but its a minor point.

I have a fresh install of 98 here on another hard drive waiting for my lazy butt to back up the current version and go on with a fresh one, so I thought it would probably be easier to try the experiment on that copy, since it would avoid the uninstall of the VXDs.

Hopefully no one is in a big hurry to see my results, but when I finally get around to getting it done, I'll post. Meanwhile, I have horizontal output issues with my monitor that are more urgent <ugh>.

Thanks everyone for your input, and wish me luck!