OMG, Not another idiot...

Hi all... I'm not a TOTAL idiot, but close.  I've been using CEP/AA for about 6 years...from the time I downloaded the first trial 4 track version waaay back when, I've been a huge fan of it both as a tracker and as (even better) editing software.  I record songs that I and my daughter write....that's all I use it for; no video editing, so surround sound anything...just good old stereo audio.

In the past 6 or 7 years, I've purchased every version of the syntrillium (and now the Adobe) versions of this software, I think.  Actually, I don't think I bought Audition 1.0, because I had just bought CEP 2.0, and it was really close.  I got AA 1.5 because it seemed to have some bugs ironed out, and also, I used to try to contribute to some online bulletin boards at homerecording.com and a couple of other places specific to this software, so I tried to keep up. (I recognize some of you, lol).

At any rate, I've been using AA 1.5 since it came out, and this past weekend, I downloaded the TRYOUT version of 2.0.  I wish I had done this months ago, but I didn't realize there had been kind of a wholesale revision to the program.  Now I do.

I have some (hopefully) basic questions that I am positive are covered throughout this BBS, but I'd much appreciate anybody who takes the time to post in this thread to kind of gel together most of the quesitons and issues I've run across as a 2.0 virgin.  I'm trying to stay away from questions that are more specific to my machine (like ASIO driver questions and the like) so that maybe it'll be helpful to somebody else as well.  Again, my perspective is not as one who is new to the software, just new to this version.  To me, the revisions are not just "enhancements" on the old system, they're an overhaul...they seem to be a complete restructuring in HOW the program handles audio and effects, and I honestly don't know if it's a good change for me or a bad change for me, but maybe you people can help me figure it out.

1.  Sends/Returns - I've mixed live sound for 25 years, so I'm familiar with the architecture.  But in AA 1.5, bussing effects was (for me) a complete waste of time, because you couldn't lock them, so it would still make my machine stutter and bog down.  I ended up using real time effects directly on the tracks and then locking them to save CPU strain.  Has this system been improved?  I ask because...

2.  Old sessions - I imported an AA 1.5 session that I've been working on for about a month into AA 2.0, and all of a sudden, even though it could play the exact same session with no problems in 1.5, my computer cannot play the entire session in 2.0 without skipping BADLY...during one point last night, it took the program over 2 minutes to execute the "stop" command, all the while it was sputtering through the audio at about 1 second at a time...I had to leave, lol.  My machine's not the greatest, but it's well within the specs for running 2.0.  This old session has just about every track locked, because I use some very CPU intensive reverbs, but they were locked in the new session too.  There HAS to be a more efficient way to run the effects, right?  Is this something that can be addressed by bussing them?

Both 1 and 2 lead me to my quasi point here, which is that everything I've read about the program (2.0) led me to believe that it can actually run much more efficiently using busses.  I'd love for somebody who has really used this program for the past several months (or a week, whatever, lol) but who can talk to me like the 3rd grader and tell me how to get the most out of this machine.

3.  Exporting - hehe...it took me about 20 minutes to figure out how to mix down the entire session since my familiar "mixdown to file" was gone, but once I did, I was happy.  I love that you have the ability to choose the output of the mixdown...32 bit, 16 bit, whatever...and that I can run my "mastering" plugs on the master stereo bus.  That saves me from having to perform about 6 other "post mixdown" processes, which saves not only time (and it saves a LOT of that, because you can actually hear what the multiband and the limiter are doing to the sound BEFORE you mix it down), but it also saves fidelity since I'm not having to destructively edit a file several times, or even one time.  This isn't so much as question as more of a poll...are you guys doing all of your "post mixdown" changes on the master stereo bus before mixing down?  I've always been forced to run my multiband on the mixdown, THEN other stuff, then FINALLY my limiter.  As it's set up right now, I just put my 4 mastering effects on the stereo bus before I mixed it down, and I knew EXACTLY what it was going to sound like after "mastering."

4.  Individual Track meters and levels - here's where a chunk of my confusion starts to creep up.  In prior versions, I used the master fader to keep the overall mix from clipping anywhere.  If I set off the clipmeter  (which doesn't necessarily means a clip, by the way...it just means "you hit 0 db), then I could pull the master fader back a touch.  In 2.0, I'm seeing individual tracks clip even when the overall stereo mix does not.  More importantly, I can HEAR the individual tracks clip, and it sucks.  This is how boards work, and I understand it, but why in God's name did they change it?  I'm not griping here, I'm assuming that it was changed for a reason that will benefit my music, and I'd just like to know what that reason is so that I can obtain whatever benefit was intended by it.

5.  Does anybody actually LIKE sugar free syrup?  I mean, I've got some, but I hate it.  Give me Aunt Jemima's anyday.

sugar free syrup is actually disgusting but I don't like Aunt Jemima, prefer whatever boutique/micro brew Vermont maple syrup maker I can find.

I'm also new to the whole send bus thing in AA 2.0 and yet need to play with it.

I have also found that no matter if you have a monster DAW which I do, stuff like the full reverb,  does not work well to do anything real time i.e. recording or even just play  playback monitoring, I was getting 2-3 second delays. I'm still wondering if I did something wrong. I'm also have been wondering in the back of my head about PCI Express dsp effects i.e. buying a card that will run effects on its own dsp and not rely on the computer's resources. The non-convolution reverbs work fine somehow, I was dissappointed that such a heavy duty machine as mine still had issues.

BTW, there is an excellent training DVD for AA 2.0 by Bruce Williams which can be found on www.lynda.com. It covers this. Funny, it  basically is the next chapter I'm hitting tonite.

Well, I ended up just adding another gig of RAM.  Runs like a champ on 2 GB, lol.

I'll have a shot at item 4, clipping - make sure you have set the preferences to use 32 bit mixdowns.  Then you can have the individual tracks going way 'over the top' but pulling down the master will cue any clipping, due to the huge internal dynamic range available.

I'll have a shot at item 4, clipping - make sure you have set the preferences to use 32 bit mixdowns.  Then you can have the individual tracks going way 'over the top' but pulling down the master will cue any clipping, due to the huge internal dynamic range available.

I appreciate the response.  Yeah, the first thing I do with every new install of all versions of CEP/AA is to make sure every preference is set to default to 32 bit.  The individual track clips really won't be a problem for new sessions...it's just the sessions that I'm importing from AA 1.5 and prior that I'm having to adjust, but it's a small sacrifice for the tradeoff of having an actual master bus.

Remember that in AA2 the default panning law is different than that in AA1.5. That can lead to different levels in the mix when importing sessions.  Also I seem to remember that there is a difference in the way busses work in AA2 that can also lead to peculiar level differences between the two.

The effects that give you the nice warning messages are cpu-hogs.  They sound great, and are excellent for destructive application, but their real-time performance is, oh how do I say this, less than adequate.  It may be worth creating presets in Full Reverb and Studio Reverb that sound similar, using Studio Reverb for all editing, and switching it to Full Reverb for the mixdown.  Also, there may be slight difference in effect parameters when importing sessions from 1.5.  Most should import correctly, but with the panning law change and just a fundamentally different effects architecture, may be louder or have slightly different characteristics than they did in 1.5. 

Also, if you're sound device supports ASIO, make certain to install their drivers and change the audio hardware device settings in Audition.  The built-in ASIO wrapper will not give you the same performance benefits as the driver designed by the manufacturer.

Much thanks...yeah, one of the first things I noticed was that importing old sessions had DRAMATICALLY different "balances" than they had in 1.5.  The panning was off, the relative volumes were whack, and in some cases, the effects levels were at least doubled.  One mix sounded about 100% better that way, LMAO. 

Again, thanks for the input...I'm getting to know my way around the program better these days, and we're going to get along just fine.