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arnie · Location: USA Posts: 3

Since I'm trying to figure this amazing program CEP 2.0 out, I have this question to propose. Is there a way to set BPM's of songs you dub on to your hard drive, open them on CEP, and beat mix them with beat beds from your imaging cd's? I know many a people in larger markets work on Pro Tools, and their work amazes me. But I feel CEP 2.0 is easier to use(although I'm hitting a learning curve). So anybody that does imaging that beat mixes songs along with beat beds for any format, if you do this on CEP 2.0, how is this magic performed. Again any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm also a read of RAP magazine. It definatley is great way to network with people and learn about other fasets of production. Thank you again for your help and or guidance.

Arnie

Craig Jackman · Location: Canada Posts: 909

(putting on grumpy old man pants)
Back in my day of tape, grease pencils, and vinyl, we didn't need some fancy shmancy bit of software to tell us how to beat mix our music young man
(taking off grumpy old man pants)

There is a way using the pitch transform in Edit view, to gradually change your files so that they perfectly beat match every time ... it's like the pitch control on a turntable only just the tempo changes, not the actual pitch. If you want it, email me and I'll dig it out as I can't recall it off the top of my head.

There is a pretty good learning curve with CEP. Here's the good news; you have these forums to answer your questions. Some of us had to figure all this out on our own. I'd say from the questions you are asking, that you're already up the steep part of the curve and are heading for the fun creative part!

And yes, if you are using CEP in a professional radio capacity, you really should be subscribing to Radio & Production. It's a lot like these forums, only not CEP specific. It's a community of like minded people who have the same problems and frustrations that you do everyday ... and I say that as a subscriber, not as a Contributing Writer.

VoodooRadio · Location: USA Posts: 3971

Do a search on "beat matching" in the archives. Not so long ago, someone went into great detail as to how to do this.

djlyon · Location: Romania Posts: 369

VoodooRadio · Location: USA Posts: 3971

For a handy little plug-in that helps determine BPM, have a look here.....

http://www.analogx.com/contents/download/audio.htm

They're all DirectX plug-ins (some cool/some crap), but they have one called "Tap Tempo" that you use by tapping your spacebar to the beat of the music and it approximates the BPM.

Emmett · Location: USA Posts: 59

This is something I'm pretty familiar with. I work in a major market and have all the tools you could ever want (including ProTools) and yet, when it comes to beat mixing, I will only use CEP. Here is the most accurate way I have found to do this. It seems long and complicated, but if you follow the instructions, after you do this once, it's easy.

1. Get a beat bed from your imaging CD and a file you want to match to it. Have them both loaded and open, for easy access.
2. Make sure they are compatable time signatures. Obviously, it would be very hard to match 3/4 time with 4/4 time. I like to do everything in 4's. Keeps it easy. So, for the sake of this post, let's assume your beat bed is in 4/4 and so is the song you're matching to the bed.
3. Start with your beat bed active in the edit view, not the multi-track. Find the beginning of a musical phrase. Make sure you start with beat 1 and not a pickup note.
4. Begin highlighting a 32 beat phrase. (You can also use 16, but 32 will give you a more accurate match). You will have to count beats in your head and use your ears. This gets easier the more you do it. You know you've got it just right when you loop the section and it's seamless.
5. Once you have found the 32 beat phrase, look at your selection time. Write it down. Let's say it's 15.382 seconds.
6. Switch to the view of the song you want to match. For instance, we'll say Britney spears is what you want to match. In the Britney file, repeat step 4. Find 32 beats and you'll know it's right when you have a seamless loop. You'll want to use songs with similar beats...at least a little close, so that you're not severely changing the speed. Let's assume that Britney's 32 beats are 17.885 seconds. You will need to condense that time to 15.382, to get a perfect beat match to your beat bed.
7. Go into effects/time-pitch/stretch. Make sure you have it set to do a tempo change and preserve the original pitch. There is a textbox where you can type the desired length. With the Britney file open, and the 32 beats highlighted, type the desired length as 15.382. DO NOT PROCESS THIS YET!
8. The window should display a ratio. Write it down.
9. Close the window and highlight the entire Britney file.
10. Re-open the stretch function window.
11. Type in the ratio that you have written down.
12. Process the cut.
13. Voila`! Matched beats!

There is much more to a good beat mix promo than just matching songs to a beat. It's all about how you lay out the beats with portions of other songs, and stutters and how you make the voice work swim with the beats. It takes practice and patience. I realize that this seems like a lot to swallow and may be unclear. If you have a specific question, you are welcome to email me at krti@yahoo.com. If you just need a walk-through, email me and we can set up a time to chat on the phone and I will walk you through the process and make sure you understand it. And if you like, I can send you an example of what one of my :60 promos sounds like...maybe you can get some ideas. Seriously, don't hesitate to contact me if you need assistance. I do a good deal of freelance imaging and image consulting. You wouldn't be the first to get a phone walk through.

Happy matching!
Emmett

Syntrillium M.D. · Location: USA Posts: 5124

Hi Emmett. I have to say, I think that's a pretty concise method for doing 'manual' beat matching. Good summary, clearly written, and easy to understand for the beginner.

I'll keep this one book-marked for the next time someone asks...;)

Cheers,

---Syntrillium, M.D.

Graeme · Member Location: Spain Posts: 4663

VoodooRadio · Location: USA Posts: 3971

I've gotten it "printed and in the book"!! Wink

Thanks!!

Emmett · Location: USA Posts: 59

I have been using these forums for quite some time. I have learned so much from regular visits. I'm glad I'm able to give something back!8)

Emmett

Syntrillium M.D. · Location: USA Posts: 5124

Graeme · Member Location: Spain Posts: 4663

VoodooRadio · Location: USA Posts: 3971

Good job Emmett!

Haas · Location: USA Posts: 5

Craig, what is Radio and Production? A website, magazine, both? And do you guys know any other forums devoted to radio production, where people like us hang out and shoot the shjt about production? Thanks! I'm glad I found this forum! Tongue

VoodooRadio · Location: USA Posts: 3971

tomcat · Location: USA Posts: 345

"Craig, what is Radio and Production? A website, magazine, both?"

I'm not Craig, but anyway Radio and Production is THE trade magazine of the radio production biz. Equipment and software reviews, tips and tricks, interviews, and each issue comes with a cd of commercial and imaging submissions from all over the world. If you're in radio production, a subscription to RAP is a must.

www.rapmag.com

*Craig Jackman is also a contributing writer.

*BTW, I've checked out (and participated) in other radio production forums, and I can't find anything that has as much usefull info as this one (IMHO), but here's the link to Kenny's forum. http://www.arborwood.com/awforums/show-forum-1.php?fid=2788

Craig Jackman · Location: Canada Posts: 909

I was a subscriber to Radio & Production for a decade before I started writing for it. Tomcat's right it's essential, not for the reviews, not for the interviews, but just the feeling of community knowing that there are thousands just like you slaving away in a small room with no windows pounding out spots and IDs for little or no reward. While we all think that we are, or aspire to be, artist ... in reality, radio production is just a sausage factory with a little less blood. The hidden key though is the monthly CD. I can't count the number of times when I'm at a loss for a good idea, take a break, plop a RAP CD in, and ...ah ... liberate an idea for my own use. Check out the website, then guilt your GM into getting the subsciption.

VoodooRadio · Location: USA Posts: 3971

Craig Jackman · Location: Canada Posts: 909

HA! Good jab!

Actually, it's my job as Production Supervisor to run interference and stop most BS from running down hill. I let my guys do what they were hired to do ... if you are good enough to be here, you don't need me looking over your shoulder. It's obvious what results are expected, now just go out and do it in whatever manner works best for you.

Actually in our building, 3 of 4 studios have windows. One has a wall of windows. I spend 15 years ****ing and whining about working in a room with no windows and what's the first thing I do when we move? Ask for blinds as it's too f-ing bright in here! Oh yeah, our 2 main studios could be sub-let out as 2 bedroom apartments in Manhattan ... they're big enough that we've got couches for the clients, and BIG bookcases for CD's. I tend to gravitate to the 4th studio - the afterthought room I call it. No windows and 2 person comfy!

BT · Location: USA Posts: 10

Arnie,

First off -- NextMedia is a great company! Woohoo!

Here is how I do it. It may be out of the way, but it works for me. A program called "MixMeister" came with my sound card. (www.mixmeister.com). It is basically a way to drop songs in and make mixes with perfect beat matching. However, it lacks any of the editing and manipulation techniques that make CEP superior.

Nontheless, I use it. Anyway, say I have a BED that is 130 BPM, and "Song A" that is 126 BPM. Obviously, I need to speed the song up from 126 to 130. So here is how I did it:

Drag the song into the MixMeister program (it will show you that it is 126 after it processes it). Then, I manually adjusted the tempo to 130, and exported it as a WAV file. I would do this for each song...just opening it, adjusting its tempo to match the tempo of my bed, and exporting it with the correct tempo.

Then, I would open all the tempo-corrected songs and the bed in Cool Edit and begin playing. You can do the same thing with the "Stretch" function in Cool Edit, but the MATH to get the correct stretch factor can be challenging, and can cause artifacts.

That may be a round-about way of doing it, but it worked wonderfully. I relied on MixMeister for the tempo correction, and CEP for all the bells and whistles.

davejames · Location: United Kingdom Posts: 2

YO WHATSUP!!!

Great topic, good advice, merci bucket. Lets start a related ball rolling now... which tunes can you think of that beat mix well using this technique - might be good for promo's etc...?

For example - J-Lo Aint It Funny [Thunderpuss Remix] and Libert X Just a Little [Thunderpuss Remix]... a bit predictable cos of the same soundsytem remixers, but works nicely enough....

YOUR SUGGESTIONS LAYDEEZ AND GENTZ!
Dave

davejames · Location: United Kingdom Posts: 2

Also, you could try:

Black Box - Ride On Time
Real McCoy - Another Night
Rosie Gaines - Closer Than Close

They work well.