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kylen · Posts: 290

I'm trying to find out if anyone is successfully using Ionizer 1.3 DX version on Cool Edit Pro 2.1

I am having a bit of trouble with basic things like obtaining a spectrum and would like to compare notes. Ionizer works fine for me on Sound Forge but I need to get it working on CEP.

I'm using Ionizer for EQ morphing (using its 512 band EQ), dynamics repair (multiband limiter with 512 bands - believe it or not), and noise reduction will be next. It takes some getting used to the User Interface but the machine is very transparent and I'm using it to repair badly broken dynamics, resonances and EQ's in mixes (that can't be re-done) with great sucess.

This is not a one-button solution, there are other things involved (like a good listening environment) so I don't want to mislead but I'm a beginning 'home mastering enthusiast' and I think this is a good tool for my tool kit (getting rather full now). I picked a copy up from www.audiomidi.com for less than list but it's still kind of steep.

To put this all in perspective - ideally you want to record and mix-down things properly. But what if you haven't and there is no opportunity to re-record or re-mix...

So how 'bout it. Anyone successful with Ionizer on CEP ? Anyone who's tried it and moved on ? What did you move on to and why, what did Ionizer do for you ?

AMSG · Location: Sweden Posts: 594

I don't have that Ionizer but I took a look at the product and it looks like a miracle product, hehe:D I read that it could make your audio sound like another recording with the push of a button! Is this true? And a multiband limiter with 512 bands? Does this mean that you can adjust every band yourself? Actually, this is a bit exaggerated in my opinion. When it comes to mastering you should be able to do everything you want with 4 bands like Ozone. If you can't something's wrong with the mix itself and should be corrected there. But this is irrelevant, hehe. I'll probably check out that Ionizer. Try the demo or so...

Anyway, maybe someone else picks up this thread now. Someone who has experience with this plug-in:)

kylen · Posts: 290

Hi AMSG,

First off I can tell you that there is a deafing silence in the user communities that I have been to concerning this seemingly miracle product. The couple of users that I have found over at one of the forums on www.musicianstechcentral.com/anderton.html seem to use the EQ morphing from time to time but not much gets said about the 512 band compressor/limiter/expander. This speaks volumes to me but maybe in time more folks will step up and chime in. I have written the Arboretum sales department asking if Ionizer is a 'dead' product and not received a reply. The product has no specific real-time gain reduction metering besides output levels - it's MAC advertising on the web page indicates a real time dynamic mood meter but that is not available for the DX version I found out after purchase.

I have used the compressor/limiter on a full mix to dial in a very narrow band - more narrow that Ozone can - and take care of a nasty problem in the upper mids with a vocal. The result was very transparent and better than when I tried to dial in the narrowest band for this type of repair using Ozone (at my skill level). It took a while to do this one and that was just one peak. While trying to set gain reduction points on multiple peaks in the same pass I really noticed the omission of the real-time gain reduction metering. After a while my tired ears really need some visual feedback from metering to see if I'm pushing into more gain reduction by accident.

I have had very good success with Ionizer EQ morphing of a full mix and plan to continue using it. Even though there are 512 potential EQ bands the morph algorithm sets up groups of about 4 points together giving between 50-100 EQ bands that are set automatically for you. Then you could go in and adjust the rest of them by hand if you have an ear that can hear 1/512th of a band or swipe a group with the mouse and set up a wider band to adjust. So far I haven't readjusted any of the morph points other than lowering all of them -6db or so to prevent my destination track peaks from going over 0db and distorting. This is very quick to do in Ionizer, much quicker than CurveEQ I'm still learning (www.voxengo.com) but haven't mastered yet. Further down the food chain I readjust the EQ again but use a [wider band] Dynamics processor like you mention.

Some of the other wider band Dynamics processors I'm trying to master are Ozone (4 band), Sonic Finalizer (2 controls - 32 "band"), Vintage Warmer (2 controls - 3 "band") and Endorphin (2 band - fixed 1.2K cross).

I'm going out on a limb here and if anyone has read so far please correct me but I think that Ozone uses a crossover type slope to seperate control of the bands while the others use some type of interpolation algorithm based on the 2 or 3 control knobs to adjust a differing number of bands that follows a spectral curve. Anyway when I look at a spectrum analyzer (set to 32 bands) I can see the curve move around the spectrum. Somebody technical please straighten me out ! In some ways this sounds a little 'tighter' across the entire spectrum than Ozone. Depends which sound I need and my ears are still learning to hear so there's another thing...

I think in general I think I agree with you about working dynamics in 4 bands. Ionizer does have 512 possible bands of limiting, compression, and expansion but yikes. Like I said earlier I haven't mastered the tool but Ozone (4 band) and Vintage Warmer (3 band) srill go a very long way. You're right, I'm working with material that should be re-recorded and remixed but that's on purpose to learn my limits and learn mastering (and to help a buddy - did I mention that !) - however I think what I'm doing is more audio restoration.

Morphing EQ of course won't make your vocal sound like Robert Plant or your full mix sound like a completely different song. All it does is calculate the difference in EQ between your favorite song and yours then apply the change to yours. I've read comments from folks thinking that It will change timbre & pitch & sex and whatever else. Not morphing EQ, it just lets me borrow Bob Ludwig's ears for a while till mine get better (much better).

Finally... Unfortunately Ionizer doesn't work on Cool Edit Pro 2.1 (only works on CEP 1.1 or so and Sound Forge - I use 6.e) and now that Adobe has the keys to the Kingdom who knows...

Nice talking to you AMSG, you're the only one in the forums so far that has replied. Unless I hear from other users I think Ionizer may have had it's day...

AMSG · Location: Sweden Posts: 594

I've read through your post and it's obvious that you're somebody who really wants to learn how to master. Not someone who's just looking for an easy solution:)

About Ozone using crossovers, this is true. But I don't know which method is more correctly. Crossovers or interpolation. I guess it's crossovers anyway since they 'cover' both a bit from the past and the next band. Interpolation 'guesses' (based on earlier information) what should be there. Well, this is just me taking a guess. I can be totally wrong so it would be great if someone else could react on this and correct me if necessary.

VoodooRadio · Location: USA Posts: 3971

kylen · Posts: 290

Hi AMSG and VoodooRadio. Thanks for your thoughts - I'm gettin ready for my step daughters' graduation from San Jose State this weekend so we're settin up Malibu lights and stuff instead of doin music this week !

AMSG - I have 3 morph EQ's and in order of usefulness they are Ionizer (Arboretum), CurveEQ (Voxengo), and Clean 4 (Steinberg - 16 bit only). Ionizer's morph moves me way closer to my goal than the others but I still need more time on CurveEQ. I think it Ionizer morph works and sounds pretty good. Following the morph I still need to re-balance EQ and Dynamics a bit mut thanks to the head start from the morph I can use wider Q's and just little boosts here and there. To do that I'm using Vintage Warmer (comp/limit dynamics) and MixTreble (restores overcompressed dynamics) with great results currently.

What happens in Cool Edit Pro 2.1 is that I attempt to get Ionizer to read in my source files' spectrum and it deletes all the samples from my waveform ! Not Cool ! It works fine in Sound Forge 6.e though (only there - no where else except MAC).

VoodoRadio - Modeling ! Oh yes, I have a Roland VS1880 where they do a bit of that and it makes fun sounds, some more useful than others. An SM58 that sounds like a U something or other ? Hmmm. But you're right I'm trying to make clear to whoever reads this, like you did, that the mixes I'm dealing with now are very extreme. So unless you want to make restoration your life's work send it back or remix it youself.

Take care, Grad Dad

SJM · Posts: 78

Kylen,
I'm interested in the EQ matching capability of CurveEQ. I've got to admit, the low price is a part of the attraction. Could you tell me how it stacks up to Freefilter? Also, what about Sonic Finalizer? You opinions are most welcome.

Thanks,
SJM

SJM · Posts: 78

One other question...
Is there a site where I can purchase individul instrument and vocal-only tracks to use for EQ matching.

Thanks,
SJM

kylen · Posts: 290

Hi SJM,
Sorry for the delay, I'm still putting the house back together after our grad party !

I'm still evaluating the EQ matching by trying to complete a full CD project of home recorded original tracks so here's an interim report:

The CurveEQ SpectruMatch feature (VST - voxengo.com) has just edged out Ionizer EQ morph last night (and that was pretty good itself !), by more than a nose in fact. CurveEQ has a lot of features and it took me many reads of the manual and forum to understand the product. It then took a while longer to get it to work with me after I understood it better. Now I am getting CurveEQ SpectruMatch, GearMatch (famous gear like avalon, LA, etc., response curves), and it's various compressor and vintage curves to co-operate with me. I like it a lot.

Following my adjustments with CurveEQ in SONAR 2.1 I have patched in Sonic Finalizer (VST - voxengo) which Aleksey has just added gain light indicators to (indicates both reduction and expansion - a very essential feature). I'm just now trying to tune in the Sonic Finalizer and this early report indicates that it is equally impressive and powerful. I'm kind of new to his curve-based algorithms so I really need dynamic lights to show me what I am doing. It was way too impossible for me just watching a spectrum analyzer on the output.

For my current application (extreme dynamic/eq balance of home recorded stuff) I have turned off my favorites - Vintage Warmer, T-RackS plugin, Ozone, PSP MixPack, Ionizer. There was always some artifact or coloration that I could hear. I may use Vintage Warmer or T-RackS to thicken things up a bit after the main balancing is finished. I also might use PSP StereoPack since these were mixed in mono (holy cow)! I also might use Ozone stereo widener, brickwall, and SONAR mastering reverb (because of the pre-delay) - but those are small details compared to getting a balance on the really rocky (both eq and dynamics) mixes.

I would think you could get individual instrument source material from the local music store, CD loops, even drum machines. Also a commercial CD may have a solo guitar or vocal (a capella) segment you can snatch. CurveEQ just needs a few seconds (my opinion - I let it listen for about a minute since I want to match a verse and chorus) of a stable sounding section to obtain a curve it can match your music to (tracks or full mix). Once you get a curve then you can make further adjustments to fine tune it (you always have to fine tune everything in life to your own tastes !). I think CurveEQ gives me the tool set to fine tune the EQ quite a bit.

I am not able to make an objective comparison with freefilter at this time.

It's also worth mentioning that we're not talking about sound modeling here where a sound is magically transformed to another type - in other words I'm not changing a man's voice to a female. We're just talking about EQ and gain curves. When in doubt always download the demo !

Take care,
Kyle

kylen · Posts: 290

Ionizer workes on CEP 1.2a (but jeesh !).

Would Syntrillium/Adobe and Arboreteum please get together so I can run the CEP release with the latest features in it (like 2.1).

I you need Arboreteums number or a support contact I can give it to you.

Thank you,
kylen

kylen · Posts: 290

Update: Cool Edit Pro support is looking at this DX plug problem I'm having as we speak. I don't think there are any Ionizer users out here but I could be wrong.

kylen

DeluXMan · Location: Canada Posts: 330

Ahh good news.

I'm confident that Syntrillium and Ionizer will get to the bottom of this in time. Approve

It's always good practice to look into exactly why anything malfunctions, even when it's not anyones particular responsibility, or it's only considered a nuisanse, incase it leads to a more general and possibly critical bug in your own application. Tongue

Sometimes it pays to be paranoid. Big Grin

We'll see HeHe.

kylen · Posts: 290