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ErikV · Location: Denmark Posts: 11

Dear Forum people

I have just purchased Cool Edit 2000. Mostly I want to record speech and create computer audio-files. To do so I have two different microphones: A cheap microphone that comes with the computer, and then a professional SHURE SM58S microphone - a famous microphone used on stage in the Music World. I would expect the SM58S to be the best. Maybe it also is in sound quality, but the input level is rather low. So when I play the recorded file from the SM58S the output level is much lower than it is for the cheap one. What should I do to make the SM58S work perfect? Should I adjust something in Cool Edit 2000? I assume this microphone is convenient for my purpose? Or should I use the cheap one? I will be delighted if someone could comment on this!

Best regards,

Erik

VoodooRadio · Location: USA Posts: 3971

Well... if your plugging the mic straight into the soundcard (without utilizing a mixer or standalone preamp) then make sure that your plugged into the "mic" in and not the "line" in. How low is low? If the noise level is exceptable, consider amplifying your .wav file once you have recorded it. FWIW, using a mixer offers not only the ability to increase the input level to the soundcard, but offers a host of other routing options as well. If you can budget a small mixer, look into that option. Wink

ErikV · Location: Denmark Posts: 11

Thanks WoodooRadio! I plugged the microphones directly into the "Microphone" plug in the soundcard (SB Audigy Audio) via mini-jack. The SM58S is connected to the computer with a Mini Stereo Male to 3-pin XLR Female Cable

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bh4.sph/FrameWork.class?FNC=ProductActivator__Aproductlist_html___157947___COCSMMXF25___REG___CatID=0___SID=F6E8D605490

The output level from the SM58S is not extremely low. If I amplify it with Cool Edit 2000 the speech is still nice, but you can hear some white noise also. I am a novice when it comes to audio. Maybe this microphone is not meant to plug directly into the soundcard but should be used together with some other devices? Can you refer me to that "mixer" that you have in mind? Or maybe one should do some settings in Cool Edit 2000 to make the microphone work better?

Erik

Craig Jackman · Location: Canada Posts: 909

There are no settings in CE that will make your mic sound better. The software just processes what you feed into it.

You will find that SB are not really the best for audio. You can do one thing that will make your sound better and that to NEVER USE THE MIC-IN JACK! The onboard mic preamp is awful.

You'd be better off to go and buy a small notepad mixer like a Spirit Folio, Mackie 1202, even a Behringer, or a small single channel mic preamp like an ART TubeMP or it's dbx clone. All of the above you can find at a good music store. Don't scrimp on the cables either. While you probably won't benefit much from Monster Cable at this point, you deserve better than what you'll find at Radio Shack.

ErikV · Location: Denmark Posts: 11

Thanks! So, what you say is, that the built-in amplifier in the computer is awful? And that I need a way to amplify the signal with an extra device, like a mixer or a microphone amplifier (I found one by chance: http://www.mackie.com/products/mackietechnology/XDR.html)?

How will a mixer or a microphone amplifier connect to the computer?

Sorry for being a novice in this department. I am fumbling around a little to find an appropriate solution for me. I am not looking for an expensive top professional solution but one that will result in rather high quality speech recording on the computer! Maybe you could help me further....

Erik

JonR3 · Posts: 4

Erik,

You will need a good sound card too. If your PC is newer mother board has the sound card biult in and not a very good one at that. A good sound card will have the connectors for your mixing board. If you want a good one cheap check out Behringer.com

Hope this helps.

Graeme · Member Location: Spain Posts: 4663

ErikV · Location: Denmark Posts: 11

Aha, so it sounds like I better buy a small mixer and connect it to Line In in the soundcard, instead of using the SM58S directly in the Mic in?

Which small mixer would be appropriate? I guess a mixer is a more "general device" than a pre-amplifier. I mean the former one can be used as a preamplifier as well?

By the way: If I was going to look for a new soundcard, which one would be fine?

Erik

SteveG · Location: United Kingdom Posts: 6695

There is a lot of information about this in the Hardware forum - for instance, check out parts of 'Experts advice (mike/mixer for voiceovers)'. A search will reveal plenty more info.

ErikV · Location: Denmark Posts: 11

SteveG, I have been reading your articles and others and it sounds like you really know about the music hardware. I am not surprised when you say one should not trust people in the Music Stores too much. That's why a Forum like this is important! As I mention above I have a SHURE SM58S. Maybe this microphone also is not perfect for speech? (although the text say it is for Outdoors, Indoors, singing and speech!). I can understand there are different kind of microphones. The SM58S is a unidirectional (cardoid) dynamic vocal microphone. Would it be better with a condensor? Eventually I could buy a new one. Which one could you recommend, when I am going to use it for speech mostly? (Audio Technica AT4033 mic or others?) I am just a guy, who want good sound-quality. I am not in a radio studio....

Regarding the mixer it sounds like you all recommend Spirit Folio Notepad. And the price is reasonable. So I could go for that.

And maybe Echo Mia for a new soundcard. I guess it will fit with the Notepad mixer above?

You recommend Cool Edit Pro, but couldn't I just use Cool Edit 2000, as I own a license for now?

And then some cables .......

I will be happy for any comments!

Erik

Craig Jackman · Location: Canada Posts: 909

The link Erik provided is for the built in preamps in Mackie mixers.

Using either a mixer or external preamp, they connect to the sound card via the LINE IN jack. There is no soundcard smplification stage when using the LINE IN. If you have to use a questionable soundcard ... and I'm still using a SB LIVE at home ... use the LINE IN or DIGITAL IN (which is another can of worms completely).

There is also nothing wrong with CE2000, except that it will lose support in about a month. The product is essentially dead. Sure you can use it forever, but the only support for it you'll find will be on the Audiomasters forum once this one dies. Adobe will upgrade you to Audition (which is CEP 2.1 in a fancy new package) for only $99. this is a screamingly good deal which you should consider seriously.

For voice, the SM58 will do. It's reliable I'll give you that. In a pinch you can use it drive nails into a 2x4. There are hundreds of better mics out there, but prbably as many that are worse. If that's what you have, use it for now. The Spirit Folio will make it sound better.

Here's my suggestions on what you should do. Buy the Spirit mixer. It's probably all you'll need in terms of mixer or preamp. While you're buying that, get some decent cables from the same store. Now you can hook your mic to the mixer to your existing soundcard and record in CE2k. Your sound should be DRASTICALLY better. When the Audition upgrade becomes available, spring for that. It's just software, but it will give you so many more options on your recorded sound it's worth it, even if you are just recording spoken word ... plus you'll save a lot of money compared to buying CEP2.1 and you'll have support resources. As money allows upgrade your mic and soundcard. There are lots of choices available for pro quality soundcards that don't have a pro level price.

ErikV · Location: Denmark Posts: 11

Thanks Craig. I have learned a lot the last few days. And this forum is great!

Since so many people have recommended the Spirit Folio Notepad, I will go for that mixer as a first buy.

I assume it will connect via Line In in my soundcard (SB Audigy Audio)? Then maybe later, if it will give me better sound or other possibilities, I will consider buying a new soundcard. Will Echo Mia or Echo Mia Midi be good, you think? What is the difference between these two?

Regarding the microphone, I think I will try out my SHURE SM58S together with the Spirit Notepad, before I decide for another microphone. As I have recognized in the last days, this microphone is not superb for speech. So maybe later I will consider buying a Condenser of some kind. But here I am more unsure which. The range of the microphone should not be very short, meaning that it should record sound nicely from a distance of about 1 meter or so. SteveG speak about AT-4033/CL from

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bh4.sph/FrameWork.class?FNC=ProductActivator__Aproductlist_html___284130___AUAT4033CL___REG___CatID=0___SID=F6ED7232510

as a brilliant one for speech. I don't know if this one is overkill in my case? On the other hand I also want a good one! Another guy recommended me SHURE PG81:

http://www.shure.com/microphones/models/pg81.asp

I will be happy for more comments on this issue!

Finally regarding the software I was just very satisfied with CE2000. My first reaction when hearing Adobe have overtaken CE was that "Oh no, then they are going to raise the price a lot in future versions" - when I think of the usual products from Adobe Wink

However maybe you are right that they will actually make a good offer for upgrading! I hope they will not destroy this forum!!

Erik

VoodooRadio · Location: USA Posts: 3971

ErikV · Location: Denmark Posts: 11

You are right that I am from Denmark, so it is not always so easy to buy the products cheap. Many online music stores in the US does not do international orders at all. Some do though, like Computers & Music:

(http://www.computersandmusic.com)

and B&H:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com

But even if the stores do sell internationally there are some brands like SHURE that they are not allowed to sell internationally for the Company producing them! Maybe to protect their internationally sellers? If I need to buy the stuff in Denmark it usually gets somewhat more expensive....

What is MIDI capability? Computers & Music have that card for 199$, by the way. Is that a good price?

Erik

ErikV · Location: Denmark Posts: 11

Now that I have decided for the Spirit Folio Notepad, I am looking for a good speech microphone. I surfed a little and stumbled over the Sennheiser MD431 II:

http://www.speechcontrol.com/microphones/prod_details.asp?prodID=013

It can be purchased at B&H for 339.95$ (emailed price!)! This sounds like a real good price! Do you think this one will be a good one for me? Will it also record nicely from a little distance, like 1 meter, you think? I guess it can be connected easily to the Spirit Notepad?

I will be delighted for any comments on this microphone!

Erik

Craig Jackman · Location: Canada Posts: 909

Of the 3 mic's you've linked to, I think that my choice would be the AT-4033. However it's important you try a mic before you buy it ... or at least have an agreement that if you don't like one you can return it at full price and buy another.

For voice recording, the best thing you can get would be a large diaphram (1" or bigger) condenser mic. This will require phantom power for the mic, but that should be available on the Spirit mixer. I find small diaphram mics (.75" and smaller) good for instrument use, but a little thin on voice.

Your ears may tell you something else.

ErikV · Location: Denmark Posts: 11

Craig, maybe you could be a little more specific about what model (diaphram condenser ...) that you have in mind? There seem to be many more types of microphones than I expected there to be a week ago, and I don't have any overview at all (sorry Wink

). I went in a danish shop today and they told me that it would be important that the microphone was with a "Neodymium Magnet". Have never heard about it. What do you think? I will be willing to pay up to about 400$ for a very good microphone for speech. And it should be able to work with the Spirit Notepad!

I have never heard about "Phantom power". I do not hope I need an extra power supply (There might be problems buying this in the USA, due to the fact that the Voltage there is 110 V compared to 230 V in Europe).

Erik

ErikV · Location: Denmark Posts: 11

Now, I have already ordered the Spirit Folio Notepad mixer from a danish store and for a nice price (Had to buy from European store because of difference in Voltage in the US and Europe!).

Next step will be to go for a microphone that is good for speech. Here I guess the US versions and european versions are identical, and I think I will get it quite a lot cheaper in an online US store. At the moment I am mostly looking at the AT4033/CL at B&H (369.95$ emailed price):

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bh4.sph/FrameWork.class?FNC=ProductActivator__Aproductlist_html___284130___AUAT4033CL___REG___CatID=0___SID=F6F5FB1FB90

It looks differently on this page, why??:

http://www.audiotechnica.com/prodpro/profiles/AT4033CL.html

Do I need a stand or so for it?

Later maybe, I will go for a new soundcard as well, maybe an Echo Mia MIDI. At the moment I own a SB Audigy Audio. With the above microphone and mixer will it improve the sound recording if I go for the Mia soundcard?

(NB! I use CE2000 at the moment, but have applied for the Adobe Audition....)

Erik

Craig Jackman · Location: Canada Posts: 909

The difference in the 2 pictures is that one shows the mic, one shows the mic in it's shock mount. Do you need a stand? I suppose you could work without one, but voiceover is so much easier to do with one. Most decent mics are not internally shockmounted, so they will pick up the slightest handling noise. You'll find it very difficult to hold the mic perfectly still, read your vo copy, and perform as a voice talent all at the same time. Buy whatever mic you want, but buy the optional shockmount and a stand too. It's worth it in the long run. Plus how bad do you think you're going to feel if you drop your expensive mic one day in the middle of a session and it goes ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ....

Will a new soundcard help your sound? Yes, but not as much as the new mixer and mic will make.

Other budget condensers you could look at would be Rode (NT1, NT2, NT1000), MXL (I'm quite curious to here the Mogami edition version of this), AKG C3000, AT 4040, and Studio Projects C series.

ErikV · Location: Denmark Posts: 11

Craig, Thanks for your comments. After having been reading about the AT4040 I actually is mostly in favour of this one:

http://www.audiotechnica.com/prodpro/profiles/AT4040.html

I also read some reviews on the same site. It also got a nomination for 2003 at Tec. I understand it is a newer microphone in the 40 series (with the classical AT4033). It also seems like its data are a little better than the AT4033, for example signal to noise level. Another advantage: Its cost at B&H is 289.95$, whereas it is 369.95$ for the AT4033/CL. Unless you have some bad things to say about this model, I think I will for this one!

I already have this stand, which I hope will work for the AT4040 also?:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bh4.sph/FrameWork.class?FNC=RequiredAccessoriesActivator__Aproduct_html___82396___ATDS7___REG___CatID=0___SID=F6F7FDFF450

Erik

zemlin · Location: USA Posts: 1156

After listening to samples from the AT4040 and the Studio Projects C1, I preferred the sound of the Studio Projects C1 mic and purchased SP rather than the AT. While I can't say that money didn't matter, it was the sound of the mics that made my decision.

I would encourage you to consider the Studio Projects mics and either spend your money for a more versatile microphone (the Multipattern C3) or spend less on a cardioid (C1). I'm sure there are those who will disagree - mics are like that, but I have heard from others who prefer SP over AT.