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Nugg_ · Location: Australia Posts: 7

Hey all, I am an extreme noob so please be gentle....

I've searched the forums/tips & tricks but so far have found no solution for my problem. A problem that neally everyone looks to have faced. So here goes. Im re-recording track 1 whilst recording track 2 when multitracking.

I'm running CEP 2.0, XP with an Audiophile 2496.
I have disabled my crappy onboard PC soundcrad and run the "outs" of the Audiophile into the "Tape In" of a Beringer 8ch mixer and the "Tape Out" to the "ins" of the card.

My M-Audio mixer settings are:-
Monitor/Mixer: All maxed, except H/W In1/2 coz im gettin feedback???
Patchbay/Mixer: (HW 1/2)Monitor Mixer (HW OUT SPDIF) Monitor Mixer

CEP settings:-
Device Properties: WAVE OUT- AP Multichannel WAVE IN- AP Multichannel
Device order: (Recording) 1. Multichannel(EV) 2. Mon/Mix
(Playback) 1. Multichannel

Whats goin on? I've farted around with it for ages and I'm getting nowhere. Is it the way I'm running it into my mixer?

Any help would be much appreciated.
Ta. Nugg

Dakota · Location: Spain Posts: 74

I don't have an AP. But, I read thru your post a couple times and I can't figure out what you are trying to say is wrong. But I'm assuming you are not able to hear or record thru the AP. The tracks you are hearing the feedback on are probably the tracks you have the ins and outs on.

Try this: Unplug the outs from your soundcard or mute them and then unmute or turn up the volume on the tracks you hear the feedback on. then try recording. If that was your problem, then your mixer was set up to loop the sound back to the AP, thus causing feedback.

Nugg_ · Location: Australia Posts: 7

Hey, thanks for the reply...

Recording is fine. I can record on track 1 with no problems but when it comes to a second or preceeding track, as i play along with the original track it re-records it... like bouncing i guess. I want to stop this so i can just reference off my other recorded tracks. I know it must be a mixer or device setup error as there are lots of posts by users that have experienced similar problems.

My reference to the feedback i was getting wasn't a major concern as i just muted it but i will try your proposed solution. Thanks.

Dakota · Location: Spain Posts: 74

Cool, I think I understand what's happening now. The sound [t:87f5b4c204]in[/t:87f5b4c204] out from the AP to the mixer is getting mixed with the signals you want to record. There should be a button on the mixer to turn this off so that the sound out from the AP does not get included with the main mix and can only be heard on the headphones mix.

What model mixer do you have?

Nugg_ · Location: Australia Posts: 7

Its a Beringer Eurorack 808
I want to keep it all through the mixer coz i only have a basic setup. Should i experiment with the AUX sends and stuff?

Dakota · Location: Spain Posts: 74

The AUX sends would be one way of doing it, but you'd have to have the in from the AP go to dedicated channels.

I just did a quick search for a "Behringer Eurorack 808" on google and came up with nothing. Are you sure this is the model number?

Nugg_ · Location: Australia Posts: 7

http://www.behringer.com/02_products/prodindex.cfm?id=MX802A&lang=eng

Dakota · Location: Spain Posts: 74

Actually, the way I'd fix a problem like this is to push all the buttons on the mixer while observing the levels going in to the soundcard until I knew what everything on the mixer did. I hate reading manuals! But I took a look at your manual anyways.

Try pressing the 2TK TO MIX button at the lower right of your mixer.

Nugg_ · Location: Australia Posts: 7

wouldn't that kill all audio coming in through the 2TK?
I wouldn't hear anything then.
Only one way to find out i guess....

Thanks.

George W. · Posts: 33

Nugg_ · Location: Australia Posts: 7

Hmmmmm, well i stuffed around with the mixer for a while now but all I can get it do is playback my other tracks without bleeding into the new ones, but i cant hear what im now playing over the top.

Is it becasue the AP is a single-track card.

Damn I just wanna plug and play!!!

Dakota · Location: Spain Posts: 74

Check the Control Room outputs and the headphone outputs. You should be able to route the playback so that it's on one of these, but not the main mix, which is what gets recorded.

Nugg_ · Location: Australia Posts: 7

Hey all,
I finally got it all sorted. Don't ask me how but after a few hours of tweakin around she finnaly works like a dream.

I had to change my output source on my mixer and cahnge a few AP settings and POW!

Thanks for your help and patience dakota.
Nugg

AndyH · Posts: 1425

I don't do any multi-track, so maybe I don't understand something and this is a dumb response. However, I've seen the same question about the Audiophile half a dozen times or more -- or so it seems to the limit of my understanding. If I do understand what people are trying unsuccessfully to do, I think they must somehow be making it all too complicated for such a simple audio card.

The card has two analogue input channels and two analogue output channels. It also has the same thing in digital (S/PDIF). I am only going to talk about the analogue, but I believe the digital I/O works exactly the same way in this respect.

From various posts I have the strong impression that M-Audio has changed the terminology in recent drivers. The hardware, and the logic, are surely identical to what I've been using for the last two years, regardless of terminology, so any Audiophile user should be able to follow this.

The goal: Outputpreviously recorded tracks (1, 2, (or more?), wav files) plus new external source input (e.g.1 or 2 microphones). This combined signal must go to the soundcard's two hardware analogue output channels for listening. At the same time, record only the new input (the microphones).

While it seems too obvious to need mentioning, the output must be listened to in some way that precludes it being acoustically transmitted to the input device (e.g. headphones rather than speakers that the microphone can hear). We must presume that some kind of acoustical coupling is not the difficulty.

The card also contains a 36 bit mixer. Input to this mixer is the two analogue inputs, the two analogue outputs, and the two digital I/O pairs. These eight channels are always present, but any or all may be muted. This is viewed and controlled on the Monitor Mixer tab of the Audiophile's control panel. To accomplish our goal, mute the digital input and output. Do not mute the analogue input or output. Do not mute the master volume. Set the level sliders wherever you want for listening. They have no effect on the input signal in this setup.

The two analogue output channels (the output RCA jacks) are assigned their source on the Patchbay/Router tab. For our current purposes, select Monitor Mixer under the analogue output (under H/W Out 1/2 in my driver version). We want to be able to hear whatever we have non-muted on the mixer tab (i.e. input and output).

In CoolEdit's hardware assignment (Options/Settings/Devices in my CE2k), select the hardware input channels (PCM In 1/2 Delta-AP) for recording. We only want to record the new input. For playback, select the hardware output (WaveOut 1/2 Delta-AP).

When you have recorded the new tracks, all tracks will play back (unless muted in CE), but the new tracks will contain only the latest input. You might note that microphones (if that was the source) will also be contributing a signal on playback unless their input is muted in the Monitor/Mixer panel.

George W. · Posts: 33

AndyH · Posts: 1425

Another reason for me not to like XP.

George W. · Posts: 33

AndyH · Posts: 1425

I would not want to discuss XP or drivers that I know nothing about. I think, however, that we are back where I started with terminology and logic. The Audiophile's mixer chip, accessed via the "Monitor/Mixer settings (with the Monitor/Mixer assigned to the output jacks via the Patchbay/Router) is what allows one to monitor any variety of signals that pass through the card. This is the one and only way one can monitor the input; it works quite the same even if no audio software is active on the computer. When audio software is playing something to the card (via that software's device assignment) that something being played can be mixed with the input signal in the mixer chip and thus heard at the output jacks along with the input.

I don't know how this "M Audio Delta AP Multichannel" is defined by M-Audio, but since the hardware has not changed, it can only be some additional driver facility that indirectly controls the flow to and from the card. There exist only the analogue input jacks, the S/PDIF input jack, and the mixer chip. Whatever the settings are now called in CE, the necessary action is to record the new signal from the input jacks. If one records from the Monitor/Mixer (by whatever name it now has in CE's device assignment) the recording will contain both the new input and the previous tracks being concurrently played.

George W. · Posts: 33

Andy,

I don't take issue with your comments about using the "Monitor/Mixer" option in the Delta Control Panel. My point is that your initial advice to set the CEP Device Properties to "PCM In 1/2 Delta-AP" and "WaveOut 1/2 Delta-AP" won't allow multitrack monitoring to work correctly for the original poster with his configuration: Audiophile 2496, Win XP and CEP 2.1. I don't see how you can avoid a discussion of which XP driver to use in a thread begun by someone running XP and multitracking. A discription of the proper driver for a particular situation and specific configuration matters very much. In this case it's XP and the "M Audio Delta AP Multichannel" settings, not the ones you gave. Again, I stand corrected if someone with the same setup gets it to work correctly with your suggestions.

G.

AndyH · Posts: 1425

I can't look at or experiment with anything having to do with XP or new M-Audio drivers, therefore there is no sense in me talking about their particulars. I haven't taken issue with your description of what settings work when using those. I am only trying to point out the basic logic of how the thing has to work. I figue that a consideration of what the parts are and how they interact should make a clearer picture in people's heads.

If it is this mulltichannel thing that gets the sound where you need it, the multichannel thing must be the route to the I/O jacks. If there is also still an application setting option for the I/O jacks, the multichannel option is probably another software interface to same that does not exist (or to which we are given no access) in older OS/driver setups.

RossW · Location: USA Posts: 214

I think I can see where Andy is coming from, and appreciate the "big picture" approach. However, I also have been somewhat confused by the Audiophile settings and how they interact with CoolEdit -- 2000 in my case, and I've yet to try it with the 4-track plug-in. Just getting it set up for the main edit window has been somewhat of an adventure, but I think I've gotten things pretty much under control.

I mainly wanted to provide a link to the current 2496 user's manual so Andy (or anyone else with a legacy version) can see what the current instructions and screens say. That might help bring this all into focus and provide some common ground.

Thanks to all for their input, because this discussion has helped me sort things out with my new card install too.

Here's the link:
http://www.m-audio.com/support/manuals/pdf/Audiophile_manual.pdf

However, I don't think the manual mentions the "multichannel" device terminology that the new drivers call for in XP installations... so we're still somewhat at a less than uniform understanding of what options are available for the user. Alas...

George W. · Posts: 33