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All Forums  Cool Edit  Mastering -- Ear Piercing Highs

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Elameno Posts: 64	Posted - Tue Aug 12, 2003 6:24 am  I have a pair of M-Audio Audiophile SP-5B Studio Monitors that I do my initial mix on (yeah, I know, the better the monitors the better the mix...but I don't have a lot of cash to throw around right now). The mix sounds really great on these puppies; however, when I burn to a CD and test the mix out on other speakers, most seem to sound pretty darn good, but there is one set of speakers in particular that really cause the highs to become piercing, and especially at higher volume levels. I'm sure these speakers contour the sound to have a more pronounced high and low end so this isn't going to happen on most systems (at least I hope not). The piercing occurs mainly on the higher frequency notes of the guitar solo, and then also on long vowel sounds, especially 'eeee' in the vocals. Is there any way to keep the brightness but eliminate some of that piercing sound? If I remove some of those high frequencies I get a very dull sounding mix on the other speakers, something I'm not going to do.
SteveG Location: United Kingdom Posts: 6695	Posted - Tue Aug 12, 2003 7:40 am  If your mix really does sound okay on a lot of other systems, then I'd respectfully suggest that it's these speakers that perhaps you should be getting fixed, not your mix! What do they sound like with other stuff? _________________
Elameno Posts: 64	Posted - Tue Aug 12, 2003 7:49 am  Good call, I was wondering about that myself, but being new to the mixing and mastering routine I wanted a second opinion. The speakers are an older pair of Altec Lansing Speakers (490 model if I remember correctly) and they definitely scoop out the mids. They have two standard speakers, two tweeters, and a sub. The main reason I refer to these is because the SP-5B speakers roll off below 200Hz and I like to have at least a general idea of how the lower frequencies are going to sound on a system with a good low end response. I'll have to do a few more tests with some of my other music to see if other mixes have that piercing sound at times. I guess I don't really ever listen to other songs at near the levels I'm testing with (both soft, normal, and loud) on those speakers. I'll post back here once I've checked it out a little further. Thanks SteveG. Elameno
SteveG Location: United Kingdom Posts: 6695	Posted - Tue Aug 12, 2003 7:53 am  I believe that there are plenty of early Altec Lansing speakers around that do this - they are somewhat nototious for it. Mixes I've heard done on them generally sound pretty flat on just about any other system, (other than a few early JB Lansing ones!) I wouldn't use early Altecs to judge anything! _________________
Elameno Posts: 64	Posted - Tue Aug 12, 2003 8:35 am  Wow, thanks for the heads up. My biggest problem is that I have no quick way to determine low bass response except for through these speakers (I switch the primary output from my Aardvark to my Altec Lansings to check for bass...it's pretty quick and painless). Any recommendations on a decent, low priced, subwoofer that I can use in conjunction with my SP-5B's to fill in the low bass range? I have an Aardvark Q10 as an audio card, so I have plenty of line level outputs available. Elameno
SteveG Location: United Kingdom Posts: 6695	Posted - Tue Aug 12, 2003 3:51 pm  You have a bit of a problem here, because the setting up and matching of any subwoofer unit is pretty difficult to get right in the first place - you have to match the unit to the speakers you are already using and the room. It's relatively easy to get a pair of monitors to behave fairly consistently in a near-field situation where you don't get into the problems of extreme bass extension, and it is because of the particular problems of frequencies below 60-70Hz that we don't generally recommend that people use subwoofers for monitoring unless they have been measured and aligned into the particular room that they are in. IMHO, you'd be better off putting the money towards buying a better pair of near-fields with a sensible degree of bass extension - at least this way, you only have the room LF modes to deal with! _________________
Elameno Posts: 64	Posted - Tue Aug 12, 2003 7:34 pm  Very interesting...what type of monitors do you run, and how much did they cost? I'm sure this will have to come at a much later date, but it can't hurt to ask now *LOL*. Thanks again SteveG Elameno
didj Posts: 18	Posted - Tue Aug 12, 2003 8:02 pm  Elameno, if you got a mix that sounds good on most systems you did great. Props to you. That means that your ears and system are set up pretty well. It's impossible to make a mix sound good on every system, and, while it's interesting to examine the subtleties of a particular setup, buying more expensive speakers for monitoring is never going to make those tweeter happy speakers sound good.
SteveG Location: United Kingdom Posts: 6695	Posted - Wed Aug 13, 2003 2:03 am  Elameno wrote: Very interesting...what type of monitors do you run, and how much did they cost? I'm sure this will have to come at a much later date, but it can't hurt to ask now *LOL*. I'll tell you - but it won't help you very much! The system I use is based on a KEF system that is very similar to the BBC LS3/5a units, only with a pair of time-aligned B139 bass drivers in separate cabs for each one - it's designed and measured as a system, only it's not in the space that it was designed for at present. The system is bi-amped, and uses a combination of active and passive crossovers. Its biggest strength is that it has a very revealing midrange - and stuff transfers from them pretty well. But probably the most important thing about them is that I'm used to them - and whatever monitors you end up with, you have to get to this state with them before you can make sensible balance decisions based on what you can hear. This is why they don't get changed for something a little more appropriate to the present space. (this is a bass thing - no problem with the tops) As to value - I can't put a sensible value on them, but they compare well with systems in the $1500 - $2000 range - which is what you'd expect from an LS3/5a-based system. It's not perfect - and there are a few things that I will probably do to improve one or two aspects of their performance soon - but this won't change the inherent character of them. Fortunately I have the means to align them within their working space, and measure their performance, so a lot of the problems that other people have, I can get around relatively easily. _________________
Elameno Posts: 64	Posted - Wed Aug 13, 2003 5:34 am  didj wrote: while it's interesting to examine the subtleties of a particular setup, buying more expensive speakers for monitoring is never going to make those tweeter happy speakers sound good. Thanks didj. After listening to SteveG I've pretty much come to that conclusion, but now my questions are related to how I can get a decent picture of the low end while using my SP-5B's. They start rolling off at about 200Hz...so I need something to give me a better idea of what's down there. Like I said earlier, currently I'm switching my primary out to my standard computer speakers with are th Altec Lansings with the subwoofer...the speakers with the obnoxious highs. SteveG, you're definitely right...that's not going to help me one bit *LOL*. It is interesting to hear what a good set up will cost, in the event that someday I find myself more immersed in this. Thanks guys! Elameno
VoodooRadio Location: USA Posts: 3971	Posted - Wed Aug 13, 2003 9:08 am  Quote: Elameno Posted ---------------------------------------------------------------------- It is interesting to hear what a good set up will cost, in the event that someday I find myself more immersed in this. When you decide you've reached that point.... check out; Westlake Audio, Meyers, P.A.S., Genelec, Dynaudio, and Quested (just to name a few) for SERIOUS quality! _________________ I said Good Day! Voodoo
Elameno Posts: 64	Posted - Wed Aug 13, 2003 9:24 am  Thanks for the heads up on the monitors everyone. Anyway, after listening to the mix at fairly high volumes the vocals are still quite piercing when the long vowels come into play...to the point where I think I need to manage this some. What would be the best method of handling this issue? Do you recommend just reducing volume at those points? It's hard to get a natural sound doing this, but I could fiddle more. Would you recommend a global compression on the 2000-4000Hz band (this seems to be the frequencies most involved)? This works, but it does alter the entire vocal track...and while the result doesn't sound bad, I'm not sure it's what I want. I don't want the vocals to lose any of their life by compression the higher frequencies. Should I do the above compression just on the offending spots? I don't want to have points where the tone of the vocals change noticably, so this could be an issue. Vocal compression over the entire range of frequencies? I'm reluctant to do this since I want to maintain the dynamics of the vocal track. What would you guys do? Are there any rules that you follow when handling this sort of thing? Thanks in advance from a newcomer. Elameno
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