Musings on a mobile recording setup.

I've put it here as it is more general discussion about options and ideas than specific hardware.

Now in order not to be surprised anymore I'd tought about putting together a mobile recording setup. Mobile in the sense of being able to be transported for location recording, not putting in your shirt pocket. The idea is to put together a package that is more or less ready to pick up and be deployed. I have played with the idea before but as I don't record often it always gets postponed and never happened.

I'm not planning on spending a lot on it, I hope to use whatever I have around. And in case I have to spend, spend it on gear that holds it value -like a mic or preamp- instead of something like an interface that migth be useless with the next pc/laptop.

First, let's start with what it will be required to do:
- record acoustic intruments on location. Mostly organ, maybe combined with something else and always inside.
- achieve good quality taking into account the situation. I'm not after commercial release quality. Mostly this is for friends asking to have a recording in order to have a memory of a performance. There is rarely time to rehearse, never the possibility to pick a time of the day it is quiet. But it should be good enough that you don't get red ears when you hand it over.
- at least 2h continous recording all tracks
- it will go to cd (so far nobody asked anything else), but it doesn't need to be available immediately.
- it should be transportable but it doesn't need to fit in a shirt pocket. Mostly these are organised outings, there is mains power available and someone around to help a hand. But I'd like it to be a single unit, a box of cables and the stand. Setup to be done in 5-10 minutes.
- for now I mostly use 2 mics but I'd like to experiment with a diy soundfield and ambisonics. So 4 channels are a minimum. Line inputs should also be available.

What is already around:
- desktop with RME digi9652, adi-8
- desktop with RME digi96/8
- laptop with FA-66
- Symetrix 2 channel mic preamp
- Fostex VC-8
- new laptop without firewire
- 2 Oktava mics (omni and cardio for both)

Until recently I used a Tascam DA-P1 with the Oktava's or a PCM-M1 with an EMC-909 for portable recording. But the laptop with the FA-66 is far better. Also considering that DAT is going the way of the dodo I don't think that this is an alternative anymore.

Option 1: I could dedicate the old laptop with the FA-66 for recording. This laptop has had its best days but it has 2 HD's which is usefull for this application. But I don't have 4 identical channels with it (2 mic inputs, 2 line and 2 optical spdif). So I'd need another interface. Problem here is that this isn't very futureproof as laptops with firewire are getting harder to find and I have not much faith in USB being a stable alternative.

Option 2: get an new laptop with firewire. This would solve the reliability problem of the old laptop but not the other issues.

Any laptop solution also gives a collection of boxes that need to be wired together to be usable. Something I don't like either, the risk to forget a cable or adaptor is too big.

Option 3: get a 1HU pc (old server), put one of the RME cards in it and get one of those cheap 19" bags/cases. Put the ADI-8 in it, get an 8-channel preamp with it, a headphone monitor and a patch panel at the back. Probably weighs a ton but it will be self-contained, fixed wired, just plug into mains and ready. Only issue I see here is a screen. With a laptop it is already there but here I'd have to lug a screen around.

I like the third option, it would be kind of a dedicated recording pc that is mobile to boot. No need to move the audio over to the desktop like I have do now. Plug the mains in, connect to the amp and (large) screen and I can edit. The RME stuff is good and reliable but I'm not so sure the idea of lugging a pc all around the place is the way to go.

Option 4: dedicated hardware recorder. Could be an older hard disc recorder to keep cost down and put it in a rack with some mic preamps like option 3. No screen or so needed, dedicated human interface instead of keyboard, mouse etc.

Advantage for this option is that there isn't a pc in sight. But it means transfering the audio to the pc for editing. But older HD recorders aften haven't stellar AD convertors.

What do you guys use for such situations? Any options I haven't tought about yet? Any serious problems with any of the options? Am I overlooking a piece of gear that would solve everything forever?

Well possibly one of the newly arrived mixers with USB2 interface and built in multitrack recording to SD card or USB harddrive as Steve suggested above. If you can't afford something like the RME there are some cheaper options appearing on the market. A Behringer (perish the thought) Xenyx UFX1204, for instance.

http://musicgearforless.com/UFX1204

That Behringer mixer is cheap - and that invariably means one thing only with Behringer. And what that comes down to is that the electronics will probably work okay, but the hardware will fall apart in no time...

If you don't want to throw money at it, then option three might work better than you think - you only have to take a small thin 15" monitor with you, and if you are careful with the way you plan the flightcase, you might be able to store it in the back. Also, it uses up some stuff you already have - not a bad idea if it works okay.

The older HD recorder idea is also sound - you can pick these up for not too much money these days, and something like an old Alesis HD24 could be used with a mic pre that has an ADAT output - and these are rather more future-proof, I think. This has worked fine for me for a long time now. It's also good on location - you can get it up and running very quickly. It's also dead easy to use in panic situations...

But however you look at it, I'm definitely a big fan of dedicated hardware on location - far less trouble than a laptop or a PC with a software recording 'solution' that relies on another software 'solution' called an OS... I'll use a laptop as a backup, but that's about all. I've only used a laptop as the only device for a recording once recently - and it worried me all the way through the session.

The cheapest 4-channel option that actually works (although you have to do an interesting interface job to use it with external preamps) is a Zoom H4N. At a pinch, you can get good results from them. There are plenty of other 4 to 6 channel options in portable recorders too, some of them quite affordable - but not without a few compromises, I'm afraid. The no-compromise portable recorders (like Sound Devices, Nagra etc) cost a bloody fortune. Doesn't stop me wanting one though! I keep thinking that if I sell all the junk I'm not using any more, I might be able to afford one...

Well I'm also more a believer in dedicated hardware. That's why I would prefer to have a dedicated pc/laptop if that's the road I go. Once setup and well running they tend to stay that way if not updated and abused for secondary uses. On the other hand the fast booting of an HD recorder is a good thing that in the situations I end up is worthwhile.

Going to read the manual of the UFX1204. A bit sceptical how easy such a thing is in actual use. Often these recorders have a convoluted user interface even while they are splattered with buttons. Maybe a bit too much "features"?

While I could probably afford a dedicated recording solution like the RME it just doesn't make sense for 1-2 uses a year. I bougth the Tascam DA-P1 years ago when I started working with the intention to regulary use it for this. But I don't think it has been used more than 50 times as a location recorder. The PCM-M1 saw even less use. There is no way I can in good conscience spend that much money on what is nothing more than a folly.

Going to look after HD recorders to see what is around. Only thing here I'm not so sure about is if HD's for these beasts are still available.

Old 1HU rack servers are about 200 euro. These are plenty powerfull for the task. Add a couple of hard discs and we're at about 400 euro. Only not so sure anout noise for this solution.

Going to look after HD recorders to see what is around. Only thing here I'm not so sure about is if HD's for these beasts are still available.

There's quite good unofficial support for the Alesis - even to the extent that you can get SSDs to run in them without difficulty. The disks use a non-standard format, and that's the only downside, really - there's this device called a Fireport that will let you read them directly onto a PC... but then you need a computer with a Firewire connection for it to work! Mind you, if you're using a PC to edit, this isn't really a problem, as you can easily get PCI Firewire adaptors. There's even some unofficial software which is way better than the Alesis offering - one way or another, these machines are well supported.

Mainly, I suspect, this because a lot of people think that there have only ever been two multitrack hardware systems that have ever sounded really good - the Otari RADAR, and the Alesis HD24. If you can get hold of the XR version, then the analog spec is even better - about as good as it can get, indeed.

Not that I'm biased, or anything!

My location recording rig is based on a Korg D3200 - I would not go the PC route, subject to any number of potential problems on the road and far too risky, IMO.

Most servers I've encountered have been too noisy for any real use. The HP one that I have here is in a desktop style case and is OK, though.

I am surprised that the Linux brigade haven't cobbled together a simple audio box, or maybe they have? A dual-booting laptop with 1TB drive(s) running something like Windows and a very basic, stable Linux is something I keep thinking would be quite usable with suitable interfaces.

Isn't that basically what a JoeCo BlackBox recorder is? And there is an ADAT I/O version. A bit more expensive than the RME UFX though.

http://www.joeco.co.uk/main/BBR_introduction.html

My standard recording setup is quite portable: a K&M stand with boom that gets me to about 2.5m, a TetraMic in a Ryecote shockmount on top for ambisonics, and a Tascam DR-680 with a 32GB card in it at the base for recording (it can do 6 analogue channels, and is really quite good).

No bulky cables to carry; but I need a wind-up mains lead, as I haven't got a battery for the recorder (using AA cells internally just doesn't run long enough).   I carry the lot on my bike, together with the music for the choir (as I am librarian).

Next outing (23rd March) is at Keble College, Oxford (my first time recording in there); the mic will be positioned for the choir, and the organ will have to take its chance - it will be interesting to compare the result with a recording I watched SteveG make there recently using his really long boom.

Isn't that basically what a JoeCo BlackBox recorder is? And there is an ADAT I/O version. A bit more expensive than the RME UFX though.
http://www.joeco.co.uk/main/BBR_introduction.html

What Joeco don't have (I had a chat with them about it the other week) is a mixed-input version. You have to have whatever input you've chosen, and nothing else. So, when I asked about a version that has 1 ADAT, 8 analogue, and 4 AES... not a chance!

Isn't that basically what a JoeCo BlackBox recorder is? And there is an ADAT I/O version. A bit more expensive than the RME UFX though.

http://www.joeco.co.uk/main/BBR_introduction.html

If that's in reply to my dual-boot Linux suggestion, I was thinking more of a laptop (this one has a 1TB drive), with a separate Linux boot partition with a small, stable version of Linux interfaced to perhaps a usb audio device. Admittedly, I know very little about this, and don't see many devices with Linux drivers, but basically I'm thinking of a small OS, no major graphics, no wifi, nothing but very basic i/o, that could record onto an external or a data partition internally. No cost at all if you have the laptop and the interface.

I've probably mentioned before that my first laptop recording was on a Fujitsu running Win3.11, mono and just a line input. It could be set to record and when switched on would boot instantly and just worked. I can't remember processor speed or memory, but they were enough for the CE 1.34 to record a Cathedral service. It would be good to get something like this running in a small corner of a modern laptop.

Sorry that this is really a bit off topic, but I was rather hoping that Havoc, as a Linuxy person, would leap in and say "I can do that!".

Next outing (23rd March) is at Keble College, Oxford (my first time recording in there); the mic will be positioned for the choir, and the organ will have to take its chance - it will be interesting to compare the result with a recording I watched SteveG make there recently using his really long boom.

Hmm... this was my fault for telling Paul that I was doing it! My reaction to sticking the microphone where I normally would, and listening to the results, was to wonder whether I'd accidentally added a massive reverb processor to the output, realising that I hadn't, and basically, I ended up shoving the mic as close to the organ as I could physically get it. Which caused the performer to say 'I seem to have a new friend'...

And even with it there, sound emanating from the rear of the instrument is still beyond the room critical distance, and it shows. Overall, I'm not displeased with the result, though - perhaps we can share a bit of each approach?

(Should also mention that Keble chapel is, at its heart, a giant bathroom. What looks like brick walls are actually tiled - which gives the place an amazing sound if you're in it, and is inevitably a bit of a nightmare to record in.)

Have been reading about the Alesis and the HD transfer is something that pops up regulary. Haven't been looking into that software yet but I suspect it is Windows only (or even worse from my pov, Mac). This transfer business is what's holding me back on taking that route. It means having to transfer and edit on a pc. Using a pc based solution would mean a dedicated pc not dependend on my main desktop that is sometimes really messed up (because me experimenting with some software or other).

If that's in reply to my dual-boot Linux suggestion, I was thinking more of a laptop (this one has a 1TB drive), with a separate Linux boot partition with a small, stable version of Linux interfaced to perhaps a usb audio device. Admittedly, I know very little about this, and don't see many devices with Linux drivers, but basically I'm thinking of a small OS, no major graphics, no wifi, nothing but very basic i/o, that could record onto an external or a data partition internally. No cost at all if you have the laptop and the interface.

This is basically my laptop recording solution only it is linux only (there is a windows VM available but that is for 3D cad file viewing). I use the second HD for data and a FA-66 for audio. It is very dependable and from a software viewpoint only updating is a risk. I admit this is a function of the chosen distro and the will to try the latest versions but that is outside this discussion. Linux support for devices is rather good, it isn't seen as such because most makers don't supply drivers themselves but rely on available frameworks.

It is also the setup it would be if I choose a rackmount pc as solution. I don't use anything but linux at home.

Most servers I've encountered have been too noisy for any real use.

That's my biggest fear of that solution. Afaik 1HU servers being plain loud. The desktop is already a bit too loud really and I fear pulling cooling air through a 1HU rack will be far worse. On the other hand it won't be running full tilt just pulling a bit of audio in so maybe underclocking and letting it run a bit hot could be an option.

Could those that say they don't trust a pc solution be a bit more specific? As I see it the biggest issues are noise, boot time, user interface (taking along screen/mouse/keyboard), size/weigth and mechanical reliability if using anything else than a laptop in portable applications. Otherwise the possibility to use a more open system (files readable without any problem, standard HDs), interfaces of choice, price, replacability look like positive points to me. And as it is a pc easy to take notes, make a backup on a location...

Took a look at the JoeCo but with it approaching 4000 euro it is out of the question. Nice stuff but not for my use of it. Going to read on the Tascam and Korg mentioned.

Afaik 1HU servers being plain loud. The desktop is already a bit too loud really and I fear pulling cooling air through a 1HU rack will be far worse. On the other hand it won't be running full tilt just pulling a bit of audio in so maybe underclocking and letting it run a bit hot could be an option.

When we tried to find rack mount 1HU PC's for broadcasting, we failed. They were all far too noisy.

When my small fanless ethernet switch here died, my son lent me a 1U switch. That was too noisy. I then invested 99ukpence in a 48port 2U gigabit switch from ebay. It is just as noisy as the 1U, so I've arranged the machines so that I can power down the switch when doing anything audio-based.

My son has dumped a fanless PC on me here, running Vista. Its case is a large heatsink, and the builder has had to cut out a section to fit the one pci card in. Fitting any other boards would need similar surgery.
I haven't actually tried it, but he told me he dumped it because the metalwork became so hot, and because of Vista.

The Edirol / Roland R44 has turned out to be the last (serious) recorder I shall ever own.  There's now an 8 track version too.  (Panatrope's 2nd law of recording - the number of channels you need is always one greater than the number of channels you have).  It's surprising how handy it is not to have to be connected to a fixed power source in concert recording situations - you don't have to find a place from which to operate to which both mic and mains cables can safely and conveniently be run.

First end-user review of the R88 that I've seen - http://www.gearslutz.com/board/8840238-post22.html